OldFallout3 SM2.0

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[monsterkatt]

Latest: The reason why you can't run this game on 9x00 series (YET!) has been narrowed down to the game requiring SM2.0b shader capability. It's reinforced by an official responce from Beth. So we're back to making a Oldblivion (oldblivion was SM1.1 though)/Bioshock SM2.0b -> SM2.0 shader conversion/patch/whatever.

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Since there's even fewer people now I'll try at least to organise it, even though I probably can't add anything substantial. I am looking through Oldoblivion stuff to try and understand what you guys have done here.

I don't know any coding whatsoever but I am very persistent, decently intelligent and I love challenges. The more people tell me to not waste my time and just play the game over at my parents/brothers house, the more I get detirmed to also make it run on mine.

If it's okay with oldblivion people maybe we could use this thread on your forum? I was kinda hoping we could nab any of the oldblivion people to help. Also going to check if any of the Bioshock SM2.0 people are alive The real problem is that I don't really know where and with what to start.

I've learned a few possible things in this discussion http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=894117&st=60&start=60 but we really haven't gotten anywhere.
The official word from Beth now is that the card can't run it because it lacks "some shaders".



What I am really wondering though, is how hard it would be to adapt/modify/convert - whatever you want to call it - oldblivion tool to fallout 3... The specific cards we the people from Beth forums is  looking at is the 9x00 Radeon series.

There's also been the mentioning of the possibility that theres some sort of filtering or detection that invalidates these cards right off the bat. Don't know anything defenite about that though, and it would seem kind of pointless for a developer to waste time on.

[crookedmouth]

 Here's what I wrote in the other thread.

A good way to start would be to figure out if it is possible to convert 2.0 to 1.1 shader model in Fallout 3. There was some kind of loop hole that allowed DirectX 8/8.1 to be used in Oblivion. Did Bethesda remove this from Fallot 3?

 Atomizer began by re-writing the shaderpackage001 to use 1.1 shader. Asp made the custom loader later.

 I've heard that Fallout.INI is very similar to Oblivion.ini. Is there still a way to turn off lighting passes and use things like auto view distances?

 If someone has Fallout.INI could they post it here please, I'm curious just to see it.

 I don't think that converting 2.0 to 1.1 shader will help cards like the ATI 9600, this card seems to run 2.0 shader model the same, if not better then it runs 1.1 shader model.

Like I said, we neeed to find out if it is possible to even use 1.1 shader models within fallout 3.

[monsterkatt]

I have no problem with seeing how a 1.1 project goes.

But... representing the 9x00 radeons I'm not personally that interested in the 1.1 shader model, since the series runs basic SM2.0 fine as you point out. The issue is that Beth says you need more than SM2.0 to run the game.

"The minimum spec is a Radeon X850. The 9x00 series is NOT supported and will not work because it cannot handle some of the shaders we use. Sorry about that."

Orin Tresnjak | Programmer
Bethesda Game Studios

This indicates to me that the game uses either something in SM2.0b (not SM3.0 right?, the x850 is a SM2.0b card?) that SM2.0 doesn't have (wich shouldn't be too hard to pinpoint?)

Anyway, I guess I'm looking for a parallell, similiar but diffrent project. I changed the topic to OldFallout3 2.0 to represent this. 




Btw, does that person still need the fallout inis?

[monsterkatt]

The files from C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Games\Fallout3. Not the ones from the games directory. I included the rendederinfo.txt file that gets created when you run the game.

fallout3.ini
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B8IHYN2X
falloutprefs.ini
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R32789UW
rendererinfo.txt
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HXU88Y32

I'm goingt to start my own fiddling the oldblivion tool and fallout just to see what happens.

I'm going to try and compile as much information as I can about shaders/shader"hacks" from diffrent games. Maybe it will help someone who actually knows some coding. This is a list in progress.

http://www.shadershock.tk
http://www.gamedev.no/projects/BioShockSM2Hack/BioShockSM2Hack.html

[Pemalite]

I think the minimum should be SM 2.0 not SM 2 b or c.

The main difference is that SM2 b/c is capable of longer and more complex shader code, and is not that much different from SM3 in allot of aspects.

However, if ASP can elaborate more on this "Loop hole" I can go and download Fallout 3 and check it out for myself, Plus I have "several" platforms in which I can test the game out on, Including a Geforce 4 Ti, Radeon 9200, 9600, FX5700LE overclocked.

Heck, I wonder if 3D Analyze could possibly help? Or is that merely for TnL enabled cards? (I hate being un-sure on anything. -.-)

After Christmas I'll have plenty of free-time to work on a project such as this, as I should have finished my other projects I have been working on lately code-wise.

[PogoDaMonkey]

In my brief experience with the tool, 3Danalyze did nothing to help, as it didn't even manage to load the game without first crashing it. Whats funny is that my particular video card has the following specs, as shown by www.systemrequirements.com:

Video RAM: Required - 256 MB , You have - 358 MB
Video Card 3D Acceleration: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Video HW Transform & Lighting: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Vertex Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0
Pixel Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0

But it is still unable to run the game. By all means, try 3Danalyze, it may work for you where it didn't work for me, but the 2.36 version always gave a "could not inject" error, and the 2.34 gave me an allout fallout crash.

[monsterkatt]

I think the minimum should be SM 2.0 not SM 2 b or c.

The main difference is that SM2 b/c is capable of longer and more complex shader code, and is not that much different from SM3 in allot of aspects.

However, if ASP can elaborate more on this "Loop hole" I can go and download Fallout 3 and check it out for myself, Plus I have "several" platforms in which I can test the game out on, Including a Geforce 4 Ti, Radeon 9200, 9600, FX5700LE overclocked.

Heck, I wonder if 3D Analyze could possibly help? Or is that merely for TnL enabled cards? (I hate being un-sure on anything. -.-)

After Christmas I'll have plenty of free-time to work on a project such as this, as I should have finished my other projects I have been working on lately code-wise.

Hmm interesting. The Beth devguy that responded to our thread said that the card (9x00 radeon) can't run it because it lacks "some shaders". Not sure what means, if the minimum is SM2.0. Makes no sense. I hope you're right though.

Oh and any help at any time is gratefully accepted. 

In my brief experience with the tool, 3Danalyze did nothing to help, as it didn't even manage to load the game without first crashing it. Whats funny is that my particular video card has the following specs, as shown by www.systemrequirements.com:

Video RAM: Required - 256 MB , You have - 358 MB
Video Card 3D Acceleration: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Video HW Transform & Lighting: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Vertex Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0
Pixel Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0

But it is still unable to run the game. By all means, try 3Danalyze, it may work for you where it didn't work for me, but the 2.36 version always gave a "could not inject" error, and the 2.34 gave me an allout fallout crash.

Well, fallout is buggy atm, so I'm not that surprised. Sadly. It could be alot of things.

[johanrocks]

As I said in the other thread, I'd be more than willing to help. Just tell me what to do :-)

In my brief experience with the tool, 3Danalyze did nothing to help, as it didn't even manage to load the game without first crashing it. Whats funny is that my particular video card has the following specs, as shown by www.systemrequirements.com:

Video RAM: Required - 256 MB , You have - 358 MB
Video Card 3D Acceleration: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Video HW Transform & Lighting: Required - Yes , You have - Yes
Vertex Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0
Pixel Shader Ver.: Required - 2.0 , You have - 4.0

But it is still unable to run the game. By all means, try 3Danalyze, it may work for you where it didn't work for me, but the 2.36 version always gave a "could not inject" error, and the 2.34 gave me an allout fallout crash.

Which card?

[monsterkatt]

Read this thread guys. Supposedly someone ran the game with a Radeon 9800 MOBILITY just fine. I'm puzzled.


http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=897254&st=0&gopid=13097939&#entry13097939

[monsterkatt]

QUOTE (Dahrken @ Nov 1 2008, 04:33 AM) *
If I'm not mistaken, the 9800 Mobility chipset is based on the R400 core (the same as the X8xx series) that is SM 2.0b compliant and not the SM2.0 (NOT b ) R300 of the 9xxx which would explain why the Mobility can run the game and not the "basic" 9800.


Oh for the love of god.... Back to SM2.0 patch and shaders then. So close smile.gif

[Pemalite]

If I'm not mistaken, the 9800 Mobility chipset is based on the R400 core (the same as the X8xx series) that is SM 2.0b compliant and not the SM2.0 (NOT b ) R300 of the 9xxx which would explain why the Mobility can run the game and not the "basic" 9800.

That's correct the Mobility Radeon 9800 is a cut-down Radeon x8xx series, allot of people have had ALLOT of luck in unlocking those chips into fully fledged Radeon x800 mobility cards.

The game at this stage is STILL impossible to run on the Desktop Radeon 9800, 9700, 9600, 9550, 9500, 9200, 9100, 9000 series, and all Geforce FX cards, it will also fail at running on the Mobility 9700 Pro, Mobility 9600 Pro Turbo and below because those are based on the Desktop Radeon 9600 chips, which are SM2 only, and not SM2b, it will also fail to run on the Mobility x300 and x600 chips because they are also based on the Radeon 9600, and consequently this includes the Desktop Radeon x1050 also.

Sorry mate, but your not running it on a proper "Radeon 9800" just a cut-down Radeon x800 renamed. (Much like the Mobility 9700 is just a renamed Desktop Radeon 9600, instead of the proper Desktop 9700).

[monsterkatt]

No problem. Just back where I started at. With a SM2.0 patch. Fiddling with shaders

[thmage]

Need any help from me?
I don't have FallOut 3 yet, but I can easily get it. 

[monsterkatt]

Depends on what knowledge level you have, but any help is good.

We have the official word from Bethesda that they use "some" (SM2.0b implied) shaders that 9x00 can't run. So the main mission is learning/understanding what Oldblivion does for Oblivion in regards to SM2.0 to SM1.1 (and/or bioshock SM3.0 to SM2.0) and repeat it for Fallout3 SM2.0b to SM2.0. Wich would require some coding knowledge or, like in my case, being stubborn as hell.

I will take a shader crash course when I get home to my own computer on sunday. I did a google on "shader how to" and there's at least plenty of information



Project thread on the fallout forums:
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=897841&st=0&gopid=13102336&#entry13102336

[PogoDaMonkey]

As I said in the other thread, I'd be more than willing to help. Just tell me what to do :-)

Which card?

Like I said in the other thread, a card that Oldblivion was tweaked for, an Intel 965GM Express.